Sun's W2100z Dual Opteron Workstation
by Kristopher Kubicki on October 27, 2004 12:05 AM EST- Posted in
- Systems
Conclusions
Sun is a high end name, and with a high end price, you also get high end service and documentation. Sun has an excellent forum and user community, although discussions regarding Opteron workstations are fairly limited thus far. Solaris and JDS have their own unique support systems and user communities as well.The thermal and sonic performance of the w2100z can only be described as a design win. Although Sun sacrifices our ability to incorporate multiple hard drives into the workstation by permitting only two (safely), we passively cool the entire rig well within thermal thresholds. The result is an extremely quiet workstation.
While we enjoyed out first look at the Sun w2100z, all of our testing and analyses are without a competitive solution to use for comparison. We expect this article to be the first in a set of many Linux/BSD based workstations, and we are excited about getting the Sun w2100z some competition - particularly since the next iteration of 2.6GHz Opteron processors are on the way. As you may have noticed, almost all of our benchmarks are platform independent as well; don't be surprised if an EM64T Linux, 64-bit Windows or Mac system competes head-to-head with our Sun in the future.
Although we only had a few benchmarks of Solaris 10 in this analysis, we hope to include more in the future, particularly when Janus support is fully integrated into the kernel. Thus far, we have not run enough tests on Solaris to provide conclusive results on performance.
There were no instances where the w2100z performed poorer than our whitebox configuration, including sonic and thermal testing. Let's consider how pricing modifies our final thoughts. Looking through NewEgg for each of the components used in our whitebox configuration, we made the chart below.
| Whitebox | Sun w2100z | |
| Opteron 250 | $854.00 | |
| Opteron 250 | $854.00 | |
| Tyan K8S Pro | $490.00 | |
| Kingston 1GB DDR | $314 | |
| Kingston 1GB DDR | $314 | |
| Kingston 1GB DDR | $314 | |
| Kingston 1GB DDR | $314 | |
| Quanta Altas 73GB | $250.00 | |
| GeForce Quadro FX3000 | $1,300.00 | |
| Keyboard | $20 | |
| Mouse | $20 | |
| CDR Drive | $40 | |
| Case, Power Supply | $200 | |
| Approximate Total | $5,284.00 | $8,695.00 |
Keep in mind that the Tyan K8S Pro comes with an integrated Adaptec dual channel SCSI adaptor and Broadcom gigabit Ethernet. Our whitebox configuration weighs in almost $3,000 cheaper than our Sun workstation, although this may be a bit misleading - we are not comparing apples to apples here. The whitebox Opteron system is a noisy rackmount server, and the w2100z is a high performance premium workstation. The w2100z comes with Sun backed support and software updates (not to mention free JDS), and our whitebox configuration is not even guaranteed to work under Linux.
Apple systems work well because they were designed from the beginning to work with each other. The same can be said for the Sun configuration. Heatsinks, CPU mezzanine, daughterboards are all designed and configured to work with each other, and as a result, we see higher performance, lower thermals and quiet cooling. IBM's IntelliStation A Pro 6224 (with a similar configuration) costs just $8500 with dual Opteron 248's installed; it is not available with the faster 2.4GHz Opteron 250's featured on the w2100z. HP does not offer Opteron workstations yet, although pricing out an equivalent 4U rackmount server with the same options runs in the five-digit figures. Sun does not pre-install the OS on its workstation like some of its competitors, but it is guaranteed to work with Solaris and RedHat distributions. Other solutions like Appro are priced competitively with the w2100z, but can't provide support infrastructure that we have with Sun. Ironic as it sounds, Sun is the inexpensive leader in Opteron workstation design. However, keep in mind that upgrading components for a workstation like the w2100z requires you to go through Sun (if you want to continue receiving support) - which can be costly.
There was a time when embracing Linux and x86_64 were two things that nobody expected from Sun. Memories of SGI's unwillingness to adapt to competitive (although probably not as efficient) architectures and operating systems remain fresh in everyone's minds. The lack of x86_64 Solaris and JDS thus far both indicate that Sun's interests in 64-bit SPARC are still prevalent, but small steps are better than no steps at all.
Ultimately, AMD and Sun benefit together in this new architecture endeavor. Sun and AMD research teams work closely together, and as a result, Sun can produce excellent workstations while AMD gains insight on processor and thermal design. PA-RISC, Power4 and SPARC architectures all have significant advantages over the x86 platform, with the exception of price. Seeing Sun, HP and IBM working together with AMD to advance x86 benefits us all in bringing affordable 64-bit computing to everyone.
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KristopherKubicki - Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - link
PrinceGaz: Multiple probes.Thanks for all the positive feedback!
Kristopher
slashbinslashbash - Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - link
#12, the Power Mac G5 is Apple's high-end workstation/server. The iMac is Apple's consumer-oriented product.I'd say that the PPC970 (G5) should be roughly comparable to an Opteron/Athlon64 at the same speeds -- at least much more comparable than a P4 at the same clock speeds. It's got a 16-stage integer pipeline, and the FPU units kick serious ass, especially with code that utilizes AltiVec (similar to SSE for x86). It's got a high-speed bus comparable to HyperTransport. AMD's integrated memory controller does give an advantage, but still I think the G5 could hang in there. Really though, any benchmark would come down to optimized code. Companies like Adobe and Apple that have the time, money, and inclination to optimize their applications for Apple hardware will see serious performance advantages over PC hardware. gcc-compiled apps, not so much, although more PPC-specific optimizations should come sooner or later.
Arstechnica has a very lengthy article on the PPC970 architecture. Take a look, if you have the time, and I don't think you'll walk away with a bad opinion of the G5.
BTW, I'm glad to see a Sun review here :) Interesting stuff. I would've liked to see another shot or two of the case itself, with all the components in it; plus a shot from the rear of the system. I'd like to see just how much space is in between that mezzanine card and the motherboard, and I'm kind of confused as to how the extender card fits in. It looks like it simply lies parallel with the motherboard (attaching along the bottom of the motherboard), but most of the time that there's a separate card, it is perpindicular.
thesix - Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - link
#12:"mlittl3 is attempting to compare a consumer product with a high end workstation/server."
You talk like a typical marketing person.
From pure HW design/layout point of view,
G5 _feels_ so much better than w2100z.
What makes me feel better with w2100z is the (new) Solairs OS and Opteron CPU.
Plus, I want to show support for both Sun and AMD :)
thesix - Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - link
I assume AMD CPUs/systems are faster. I haven't got a chance to do any serious testing between my dual-246 w2100z and my friend's dual-2.0GHz G5.I guess I simply don't care that much, anything less
than 10% of performance difference is not that significant to me. However, it's always good to know "my computer is faster than yours". :)
Reflex - Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - link
The problem with the recent Mac article appears to be that it has attracted the zealots to this site in force. mlittl3 is attempting to compare a consumer product with a high end workstation/server. They target different market segments and are designed for different tasks. Furthermore, the support offered for each, and the type of support is considerably different. Its Apples to Oranges.#11: We'll never really know how fast a G5 is in comparison, Apple does not allow independant hardware reviews, leaving it up to websites to purchase and test their own hardware. I know of no site as comprehensive as Anandtech on the Mac side of things as a result, so any claims of G5 performance are pretty much guesstimates and marketing unfortunatly. I wish this would change, it would be nice to know how Apple hardware really does perform as that would assist network admins in determining where it fits/if it fits into their current setup. Just being told by a company that "Its fast and stable" is not enough to make a corporation invest in a platform.
PrinceGaz - Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - link
Great review, the thermal graph is especially good in showing how the cooling performs. Did you attach many probes and take all the measurements in one go, or have to do it multiple times?----
The dual G5 uses some sort of liquid-cooling system inside the case I believe. That probably helps it reduce the noise.
Is a dual 2.5GHz G5 machine as fast as a dual Opteron 250 (2.4GHz) box anyway? Results posted by Apple themselves don't count of course :)
fic - Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - link
#8 you could replace the FX3000 with a 6800 and save another $1000.I would like to see a comparison between the w2100z and 2nd tier companies like Boxx, XI, Aspen, etc. I have been trying to talk my company into moving to a 2x 250 system from a 2x Xeon system to ship with our product. BTW, we do digital medical imaging and need the processing power to do image processing on our 4096x5625 images.
thesix - Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - link
I am surprised to see w2100z is rated as _quiet_ here. I _personally own_ w2100z for almost 3 months now, at home. Apple G5 is _much_ quieter than w2100z. In fact, noise is my biggest complain about w2100z, and I spent lots of time trying to "fix" it. I am confused.http://www.pbase.com/taochen/w2100z
mlittl3 - Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - link
Well, I guess all you apple-haters' comments that x86 computers are cheaper than apple computers can eat your words.Whitebox system $5284
Sun w23100z $8695
Apple Dual G5 2.5 GHz $5570
(configed with 4 GB RAM, larger 160 GB harddrive, Geforce 6800 which spanks the FX3000's ass and combo drive)
Oh that's right, you guys think the dual G5 system was meant for your grandmother to check email and your baby brother to play spongebob squarepants video games.
Get a clue. Good x86 systems with dual processors from reputable companies like Sun (or even whitebox systems) and dual apple systems cost about the same. Let's end at least the price part of apple vs x86 right here and now.
Araemo - Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - link
Wow.. you guys outdid yourselves, especially with the thermal graphs. I also want to say how nice it is to have a couple new reviews every week again. Keep up the good work guys. :)